丁香园AV

June 8^th is recognized by the United Nations as , a day that aims to raise awareness of the importance of oceans, the need to use their resources sustainably and preserve their populations for generations to come.

Although humans have only explored of ocean depths, we know enough about the challenges oceans face and their importance to know that we need to do a better job of protecting them and the people who rely on them.

What led you to the field of resource economics and to studying the blue economy?

The blue economy is a new concept; it's been around for about 10 years. That said, for a long time there have been people that have looked at how we can sustainably benefit from the ocean.

I think for me, growing up in a fishing town in Mexico where there was a lot of poverty, and hearing about ocean management and biology research that was being done, the inequity was always present for me. I was like 鈥淚 get that the ocean is so bountiful and that we鈥檙e trying to find better ways to use it sustainably. But like, why do other kids not have shoes? Why are none of the streets paved? Why do people not have electricity or running water?鈥� I think that has always really been my drive.

Now we call this concept the blue economy and we're thinking about all these sectors that are coming together. But I think the blue economy term aside, it has been a guiding question of how can we make sure that the people living next to the ocean can thrive? This has unfortunately often not been the case.

What are some key benefits of the blue economy? How are these benefits measured?

The blue economy is defined as socially equitable benefits from sustainable oceans. Traditionally, the way we measure benefits is through income and jobs, and some idea of how the ecosystem is doing. This has been true for fisheries, aquaculture, offshore wind, deep sea mining and a lot of these new technologies that are part of the broader ocean economy. With the blue economy, because the focus is on social equity and a more just distribution of benefits, we have to look at some other measurements, like how do frontline and marginalized coastal communities benefit? How are women benefiting compared to men in some communities? How are specific ethnic groups or Indigenous groups benefiting from them? That's what sets a blue economy apart. We're not looking at benefits in terms of the total amount of money produced; we want to know who's getting it and we want to know who is bearing the costs of development. In that sense, I think for Canada, B.C., and a lot of the world it starts with looking across different groups, whether it鈥檚 ethnicity, social status, income or Indigeneity and making sure that everyone is benefitting equitably.

In an article in , you outlined how developing Canada鈥檚 blue economy will continue to create transformative and equitable ocean policies that benefit coastal communities. Can you give an example of this in practice? Do you see further opportunities for improvement?

Canada is a very special example in terms of blue economy research. Even though there are a lot of equity and climate challenges, it has a lot of research, commitments and funding that make it better positioned than a lot of other countries.  One big example I see, while not perfect, is Canada鈥檚 Integrated Commercial Fisheries Initiative programs that provides government funding so First Nations can enter commercial fishing. I think it鈥檚 interesting because essentially, you鈥檙e working within the fisheries management system that we have, that is not perfect, and you鈥檙e allowing Indigenous peoples that were marginalized and totally excluded from participating, for hundreds of years in some cases, to benefit. It鈥檚 one example where you鈥檙e using a current system, but actually turning the power dynamics a bit to allow people that were marginalized, that are at the frontline, that are out in these rural coastal places, to enter in and to really benefit from these industries.

What鈥檚 important about these programs is that we allow people to make their own choices. Now a lot of Indigenous communities are saying, 鈥渨ait a minute, we can see what鈥檚 happening with salmon, and we can see what鈥檚 happening with climate. How about we invest in agriculture or in eco-tourism instead?鈥� and we should continue to provide support for them to do that. It鈥檚 a good example of how we can put the blue economy to practice where you have a system that is still sustainable. We want it to be sustainable, I think we鈥檝e learned our lesson and are continuing to learn our lesson about sustainability. We also want to make sure that it鈥檚 creating financial benefits for people, that鈥檚 just the system we live in. These examples show that we can do that in a way that empowers local communities and supports them financially to be able to lead the way in their own kinds of investments.

Your recent paper in , highlights how equity 鈥� a key component of the blue economy 鈥� has taken a back seat to capitalist agendas. In response, your team developed the Blue Economy Equity Model as a framework to assist governments and policy makers in developing equitable blue economies. Can you explain this model and how it can contribute to a successful blue economy?

In this particular paper we worked with colleagues in Australia, Dr Freya Croft and Dr Michelle Voyer, and we鈥檙e first highlighting the fact that equity, historically and currently, is often not at the center of development. People are still just interested in economic growth, growing a sector and making it sustainable. But if equity is going to be a focus, we don't know how to do it yet. So, this model aligns with the UN Environment Programme's transformation framework that gives countries advice on how they might think about equity locally, and actually operationalize that concept. A lot of countries show interest in socially equitable development, but we don't exactly know what that looks like in practice yet, because it's never been done. So, in this paper we distilled a lot of different writing, scholarship and experience from practitioners on what it means to do something equitably into four main themes: achieving fairness, preventing harm, respecting rights, and supporting flourishing. These four themes try to get at the basic principles of equity, where you're trying to stop active harm, and hold people accountable. They鈥檙e to make sure that obligations to human rights are being exceeded, not just being met at the bare minimum, that people have leadership to make their own decisions about their resource use and that we're setting the bar high in terms of what these communities want to look like in the future.

Can you talk a bit about Ocean Nexus and how this connects to your work at 丁香园AV?

Ocean Nexus is an incredibly diverse group of researchers, both in terms of background and expertise, from around the world. Through Ocean Nexus I鈥檝e learned that there are great ideas out there for helping the oceans and the people that depend on them 鈥� we just historically haven鈥檛 done a good job of elevating those ideas and voices. As we move forward, there are less barriers to sharing these ideas and it鈥檚 now a question of putting in the effort to find new voices and new ideas and to support and elevate them. Similarly, we鈥檙e seeing a big group of ocean researchers at 丁香园AV, including some that are really well known in our field, and now myself and other new professors, that I think will lead to some cool things.

For a long time, we looked to ecosystems to solve our social problems, thinking that if we could conserve our ecosystems people would be happier. We now know that this isn鈥檛 the case. But there is an amazing wealth of ideas and knowledge from locals, scientists, etc., from everywhere, on what people actually want and need to be happy. That's what we're trying to integrate now.

What makes you hopeful about the future of our oceans?

We've learned so much already about what not to do. I think newer generations have much less patience for hypocrisy and for making the same mistakes. That makes me hopeful because there are many better things we could be doing. In my generation and in generations past, there were a lot more people saying, 鈥淚'm sure things will work themselves out.鈥� Now, we're trying to ensure that we're not harming people and making sure that we're actively helping people benefit in equitable ways from coastal resources. It makes me hopeful to think we鈥檙e at that point where people aren't willing to make the same mistakes repeatedly, and I鈥檓 excited to see how we keep moving in better directions.