Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 9: Call it what it is: a look at the opioid crisis 鈥� with Sarah Blyth
Speakers: Melissa Roach, Maria Cecilia Saba, Jamie-Leigh Gonzales, Sarah Blyth
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Melissa Roach 0:00
You鈥檙e listening to Below the Radar, a knowledge mobilization project recorded out of 312 Main. This podcast is produced by 丁香园AV鈥檚 Vancity Office of Community Engagement.
Maria Cecilia Saba 00:17
Below the Radar brings forward ideas to encourage meaningful exchanges across communities.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 0:21
Each episode we interview guests on topics ranging from environmental and social justice, arts, culture, community building, and urban issues. This podcast is recorded on the unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 0:42
You鈥檙e listening to Below the Radar. My name is Jamie-Leigh Gonzales and this week I鈥檓 talking to Sarah Blyth. Sarah ran as an independent candidate for City Council in the most recent municipal election. She also helped start the Overdose Prevention Society (OPS) and served two terms as a Park Board Commissioner. For years, she鈥檚 been a leading voice in the Downtown Eastside when it comes to addressing drug policy or responding to the opioid crisis. Despite not getting a seat on City Council, she's still working on the front lines in the Downtown Eastside with OPS.
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Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 1:20
Alright, welcome to Below the Radar. My name is Jamie-Leigh Gonzales and I work out of 丁香园AV鈥檚 Vancity Office of Community Engagement. I鈥檓 here with Sarah Blyth and, I mean, let鈥檚 just jump into it, get into all the good stuff. If there鈥檚 anything you want to introduce yourself specifically right now鈥�?
Sarah Blyth 1:38
Okay, yeah. I guess I鈥檓 the executive director for the and we run a safe injection site for people in the Downtown Eastside and we see up to, around three to four hundred people a day, up to 700 people a day, and we鈥檝e seen over 200,000 people and we鈥檝e never lost any lives and we鈥檝e saved a lot of lives so鈥� it鈥檚 a pretty cool place to be a part of, but it鈥檚 a difficult place, at times, too.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 2:13
Absolutely, yeah. And you have been a very vocal voice in the opioid crisis and the prevention response, not just through your work with OPS but also running for council recently and your work with and all of that stuff. So I鈥檓 curious what you鈥檙e up to now?
Sarah Blyth 2:33
Well, I鈥檓 just doing what I was doing before so, and running for council was really good. It鈥檚 hard to win as an independent but I gave it a shot, and it was kind of interesting, just because I鈥檝e been so involved in the crisis for so long and it鈥檚 been going on so long, it was an interesting kind of break, in some ways, from dealing with the crisis all the time. But it also gave me a chance to bring the issues into all the different neighbourhoods and talk to people about issues that are affecting them and learning more about what鈥檚 happening in everybody鈥檚 community. It was really good, and I really enjoyed my time and met a lot of great people. Educated people and bridged some gaps.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 3:14
Yeah, I think even just running has brought you more into the focus, in the public eye, and that鈥檚, I mean, helpful in so many ways in bringing these issues to light. How do you think the new municipal government will address the drug policies or the overdose crisis?
Sarah Blyth 3:36
Well, I just...you know, there鈥檚 been so many task forces that I鈥檓 just hoping that they start to implement some of these initiatives or ideas that people have come up with that have been family members or people with lived experience or drug users themselves. Just making sure that some of these ideas are tough to implement as politicians, and I鈥檓 just hoping that they don鈥檛 just continue to try and come up with ideas to avoid what really is necessary, and that鈥檚 just getting a safe supply to people who are in the crisis and using, because fentanyl is just so addictive. People, we need to get them off of something that might kill them onto something that鈥檚 not going to kill them, and that they know what dose that they鈥檙e taking and that鈥檚 the only thing that鈥檚 gonna really help the crisis. It will also help with a lot of things like survival sex trade, you know, instead of having to go out there and make money doing things that women may not want to do, give them the ability to just get drugs that they need without having to do some of the harder stuff that might cause more trauma and put them at risk. Also even breaking into cars and other things, so, I think you can鈥� you know, it's just responsible thing to do in so many ways, and people feel like it鈥檇 be a bit of a political risk to run these programs, but actually in the end, it doesn鈥檛 matter because it鈥檒l save money, save lives and everything else that鈥檚 necessary. So it鈥檚 really important that you need this leadership to get out there and just say 鈥渢his is the right thing to do鈥� and be strong on it, or else we鈥檙e just implementing programs that don鈥檛 really work or just mandates.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 05:36
Yeah, absolutely. What鈥檚 your perception of the government鈥檚 response so far, whether it鈥檚 municipal, provincial, federal?
Sarah Blyth 05:42
Well, I think, you know, municipally we can do a lot better. We criminalize a lot of drug users and they get charge for, you know, just having the small supply and making a mental health issue a criminal issue and send people through the criminal system as opposed to actually helping them with the help that they need, which is housing, mental health or other types of health issues that they might have. So I think that we鈥檙e failing our most vulnerable people by just jailing them and doing that to them, so I think that that鈥檚 terrible. And it doesn鈥檛 provide any hope for the person that鈥檚 living in an alley in the Downtown Eastside. We need to, you know, do a lot better municipally.
Sarah Blyth 06:38
Provincially, with the overdose prevention sites, it鈥檚 been really good, but we really need to focus on getting safe access both provincially and federally. So we need to continue to push for that, and it needs to be treated like an actual crisis. There鈥檚 people dying in the streets in Vancouver more than there ever has for any other crisis that I think has been known. So we just have to treat it like the crisis it is and do something, you know, do some bold thing, don鈥檛 just do things that we鈥檝e done for a hundred years because that鈥檚 kind of how we got ourselves to where we are right now. So, the war on drugs didn鈥檛 work, we need to now treat people and help people.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 07:23
Yeah, I mean the war on drugs just created stigma and dehumanized people who are just self-medicating and trying to cope and deal. Sorry, and federally, I guess, is the last.
Sarah Blyth 07:36
Well, I think that we should definitely be calling it what it is, and that's a national health crisis and doing it in an official way, because it is, and I think that bringing more attention but also decriminalizing drugs across Canada, making sure that people have safe access as much as they can, it鈥檚 really going to make a huge difference in the crisis itself. So i think everything, you know, you can do everything you want to do, but if you don鈥檛 do that, it won鈥檛 really do much, I think, in the end, to help the crisis and also, I mean, also, hope, health, you know, hope and housing and other things like that.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 08:18
So do you think...like, what鈥檚 next for you? Do you think you would go back to politics or are you feeling burnt out from that? Or...I mean, I imagine it would burn me out, but鈥�
Sarah Blyth 08:32
I鈥檓 used to doing lots of things so, I don鈥檛 know, I鈥檓 always wondering what鈥檚 next and trying to keep it interesting. I鈥檓 happy doing what I鈥檓 doing and I was a bit worried that if there was a chance - and I knew that it would be difficult - if there was a chance that I did make it to council it would be difficult to kind of leave that I鈥檓 doing right now 鈥榗ause I feel like the work that I鈥檓 doing is really important, so...but you know, I was committed to continue to help. So the thing is, is that...I鈥檓 not really sure. Things come up and then you just, you go 鈥渟hould I do this or not?鈥� and try to make good, decent decisions about what you鈥檙e gonna do. But who knows? I don鈥檛 know.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 09:17
Yeah, 鈥榗ause it鈥檚 not your first time in politics, you were鈥�
Sarah Blyth 09:23
A park commissioner.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 09:23
Yeah, yeah. And you started because you just wanted to make some change, yeah?
Sarah Blyth 09:27
Yeah, I mean, there鈥檚 really benefits to making change from the front lines and, you know, being on the ground, grassroots. And then there鈥檚 also benefits to being in government and making policy, hearing from people, accepting interesting, cool new ideas and having people like that in government is really important, because you aren鈥檛 going to get anything interesting done without some interesting people that will be willing to listen to your ideas, so we need a little bit of...that鈥檚 why it鈥檚 great to have...hopefully, this council seems, I mean...it鈥檚 pretty diverse in terms of what they bring to the table and who they are as people. It鈥檚 not diverse, you know, in terms of鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 10:13
Visibly?
Sarah Blyth 10:14
Yeah, visibly. Yeah. And we have to do better than that in the future and I really hope that they鈥檙e gonna find a way to make it a more diverse council and give people opportunities to鈥︹�檆ause nobody, you know, how does anyone want to run if they think that they don鈥檛 have a chance? So you鈥檙e gonna get less and less people putting their name forward because it鈥檚 a lot of time, effort, commitment. You have to go meetings across the city, and if you think that it鈥檚 gonna be all white people who get elected, I mean...how would people actually wanna run and be involved in that sort of thing? There鈥檚 just gotta be some really big changes to that, and that鈥檚 partially education and...but people are...even he got carded yesterday, did you see that?
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 11:08
I didn鈥檛 see that!
Sarah Blyth 11:11
Yeah, so he came to Vancouver to talk to people about carding, and he gets carded right near Stanley Park and it鈥檚 unbelievably shocking.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 11:20
And he鈥檚 like...that鈥檚 not a new issue for him to talk about. People don鈥檛...how do you not recognize him as the voice of that, you know?
Sarah Blyth 11:29
And he gets carded within 24 hours of being here鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 11:32
Fuck鈥� sorry I don鈥檛 know if I鈥檓 allowed to say that here.
Sarah Blyth 11:33
(laughs) And yeah...but it鈥檚 not shocking to me. In some ways, it鈥檚 not that I鈥檓 glad that it happened, but people in the Downtown Eastside living in poverty and that are homeless deal with it everyday, and no one takes, like you talk about it, no one takes it seriously. And so, having someone like that鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 12:55
A little more high profile?
Sarah Blyth 12:57
Yeah, can say 鈥渢his happened to me, and if it happens to me, it happens to other people too.鈥� And so, it鈥檚 been...and to me that鈥檚 really important because it does, I see it happen! People get carded all day! And it鈥檚 disgusting, really, because it鈥檚 human rights being trampled and people being carded based on their skin colour, and it鈥檚 totally not cool.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 12:29
Yeah, and I feel, I mean, to loop it back around, like I do feel like we reflect back at our city these ideas that are really deeply ingrained because we have an all-white council, except for .
Sarah Blyth 12:43
Yeah, I mean, it just brings to mind the subconscious of people and that鈥檚 an issue that鈥檚 not really...that鈥檚 in the subconscious whether anyone wants to admit to it or anything else. It鈥檚 actually something that people are really dealing with on a regular basis.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 14:00
Yeah, and also, how is policy going to change if we are continuously electing people who don鈥檛 experience any of those things, right? Yeah, I think diversity within our council is a major issue.
Sarah Blyth 13:13
Yeah, experience in any way...when you can speak to things from experience, it鈥檚 the only way to understand it, because no one can really understand someone else鈥檚 thing. When you have lived experience in anything, and you know, that鈥檚 why asking drug users how, what their lived experience is actually is the thing that...and when drug users have lived experience, they can really truthfully talk about what it鈥檚 like, and no one else can do that.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 13:43
What do you think the impacts of the legalization of cannabis in BC will be?
Sarah Blyth 13:49
Well that鈥檚 kinda just rolling out right now. For people that are homeless that don鈥檛 have...like, if they want medical cannabis, people that are homeless don鈥檛 have an address, don鈥檛 have a credit card, so they can鈥檛 buy any of this medical cannabis online. So it鈥檚 gonna be challenging for people who are poor and living in poverty to get medication that they need, which brings it around to then they go back to the black market and those sorts of things. So I think it鈥檚 like, you know, with everything there鈥檚 good intentions but it鈥檚 legalizing and then having it more...criminalization of it. I really think that, I really hope, I had a person in the Downtown Eastside have a police officer say, or actually several people saying like 鈥渁fter legalization and you鈥檙e caught smoking, I鈥檒l be able to give you a $500 fine for smoking a joint.鈥� So they can鈥檛 if you鈥檙e a medical user but, to be honest, who the hell...why would they use that to like...that鈥檚 a terrible use of police officer time, right? In the Downtown Eastside or anywhere else. So I don鈥檛 know. I just think like, sometimes when you enact these things some of the consequences of that is just like more enforcement, which is not the goal of legalization. So I think as these things come up people have to really challenge them and make sure that people are getting treated fairly.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 15:25
I agree. I also think that a lot of people making the policy around this aren鈥檛 necessarily thinking of the economic benefits and you know, it鈥檚 legal, we can do this...I don鈥檛 know.
Sarah Blyth 15:35
And they don鈥檛 have the lived experience of the pot user themselves, or the cannabis user, sorry. And what the actual needs are and why. And a lot of people use it for pain relief, they use it for anxiety鈥�
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 15:50
Absolutely, it鈥檚 a coping tool!
Sarah Blyth 15:55
Yeah, and it鈥檚 better than opiates, so like, give it to people. Let people have it, especially with the opiate crisis and everything else, I鈥檝e seen, through our program in the past, I鈥檝e seen that it really help people with pain, sleep and stuff like that that they were using opiates for.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 16:17
Yeah absolutely. I think it is a lot of comfortable, middle class people who are reaping the benefits of legalizing it, but there鈥檚 nothing to be done about decriminalizing and actually creating accessible cannabis for the people who would use it for medicine too. So for Vancouverites, how do you feel people not in the political sphere are responding? Do you find that you鈥檙e getting a lot of support? Do you find that you鈥檙e trying to battle the stigma? What鈥檚 your perception of Vancouverites as the mass?
Sarah Blyth 16:59
Yeah, I think that a lot of people are becoming more educated and supportive of doing something and they鈥檙e starting to understand that there are some things that we haven鈥檛 done in the past. And I think we鈥檙e at a point where we could actually do something, and the sooner the politicians figure that out and understand that, the better. You know, less people are gonna die, we鈥檒l be world leaders on this, all the front line workers agree on it, so...what鈥檚 the hold up on this? I just think that it鈥檚 time to just get on with what we know what needs to be done that鈥檚 right for people and get people safe access.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 17:52
Yeah, and is there anything that could be done that our listeners could do to help destigmatize or get involved or anything you would suggest our listeners to put their own knowledge or skill to use?
Sarah Blyth 18:07
Well, yeah, writing letters and saying that you support safe access to it and federal, provincial, and municipal government having conversations, educating people is really, really important for change. And educating yourself, being safe...I mean, that鈥檚 one of the main things, you know.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 18:33
And I think even, if it鈥檚 okay to bring up, you said that your son works with you and he鈥檚 15. So educating the next generation and...normalizing and humanizing these crises for the younger generation who are very influential.
Sarah Blyth 18:54
Well today is bring your kid to school day. Or no! Bring your kid to work day (laughs).
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 19:00
Yeah, okay, cool!
Sarah Blyth 19: 01
And so he鈥檚 with me today, and he鈥檚 learned how to use NARCAN, he learned how to do the drug testing, and there鈥檚 a lot of science involved with that. But you know it, and he鈥檚 like 鈥淚 know people who use drugs鈥�...I mean, we don鈥檛 need to lose anymore young people.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 19:19
And I think educating our kids is so important.
Sarah Blyth 19:21
Educating our kids is so important in saving their lives and having them make decisions and stopping something before it starts, especially with our most vulnerable kids. I think kids with learning disabilities, kids that have maybe other issues growing up are more susceptible to drug use long term, and the long term situation for someone in drug use is not a positive thing and it鈥檚 a costly thing because you know...so I think it鈥檚 really important people when they鈥檙e young and have them understand, and also be prepared if they鈥檙e at a party and they come into an overdose or something, 鈥榗ause that鈥檚...the pills that kids are taking these days have, you know, are like Xanax. Insite just did a test where it鈥檚 got fentanyl in it and that鈥檚 what young people take.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 20:16
I think a lot of kids are also, you know, if that鈥檚 something they get into, it鈥檚 also a coping mechanism. So it鈥檚 like talking to your kids, making sure that if they are having a hard time that you know鈥�
Sarah Blyth 20:27
Well there鈥檚 a lot of anxiety of being a young person, especially in this world, the way that it is. So people are looking for anxiety relief, and I understand that, but that鈥檚 not the way to do it, for a young person. Yeah, being open about it but also having a good understanding of the effects that some of these things can have on you and making good decisions...I don鈥檛 know. The education is really important.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 20:52
Yeah, education. Anything else you want to add?
Sarah Blyth 20:56
Nope, I鈥檓 pretty good.
Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 20:57
Cool, alright, well thanks for coming!
Sarah Blyth 20:59
Thank you!
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Jamie-Leigh Gonzales 21:06
Thanks for listening, and thank you to Sarah Blyth for coming out and talking to me. Thanks to Davis Steele for composing the music for this podcast. To the producers, Am Johal, Melissa Roach, Maria Cecilia Saba and myself. Sarah and I covered a lot of things within this conversation, but I just want to add that if you are using, do not use alone and to go to one of the safe injection sites around Vancouver and the Downtown Eastside.
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