Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 48: Social Transformation 鈥� with Tara Mahoney
Speakers: Paige Smith, Am Johal, Tara Mahoney, Michael Byers
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Paige Smith 0:06
Hello listeners, I'm Paige Smith with Below the Radar, a knowledge mobilization podcast. Below the Radar is created by 丁香园AV's Vancity Office of Community Engagement and is recorded on the territory of the Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. On this episode of Below the Radar, our host Am Johal sits down with Tara Mahoney, The Research and Engagement Coordinator of 丁香园AV's Community Engagement Research Initiative or CERI. Am and Tara chat about her research involving participatory political engagement, as well as the other projects she's involved in.
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Am Johal 0:43
Welcome to Below the Radar, excited to have Tara Mahoney join us. Welcome Tara.
Tara Mahoney 0:48
Hi, thanks for having me.
Am Johal 0:49
Hey, Tara, I've so many different questions I could ask you, but I met you first when you were working and initiating Gen Y Media but more recently, you've finished your doctorate at 丁香园AV in Communication, and you've been doing some work at the David Suzuki Foundation related to climate change. I'm wondering if you can maybe begin by sharing a little bit of that work.
Tara Mahoney 1:10
The climate change stuff?
Am Johal 1:11
Yeah.
Tara Mahoney 1:11
Yeah. Yeah. So I became the Research Fellow in Climate Change Communication at the David Suzuki Foundation in um February of last year. So February 2019. And basically what my research has consisted of is helping them come up with strategies to engage millennials in climate change. So, there's a kind of difficult, paradoxical, thorny problem with millennials and climate change, which is, they're the most concerned and engaged, you know, generation on the issue but they are also on mass exiting political or democratic institutions. So a lot of my dissertation looked at the political participation patterns of millennials and basically, they're coming up with new or informal forms of political participation, but they're not actually participating in the institutions. So they're voting less, they're almost abandoning political parties. They're specifically not engaging in municipal politics at all and the data doesn't really suggest that they're gonna start, they might, but it's sort of suggesting... like, because often when you look at cohorts, people say, "well, you know, they're young people engage in politics more as they get older," which there's indications of that but it's also showing that like, they won't engage to the levels of like the previous generation, for example. So like the Baby Boomers will continue to out, vote us out, out join political parties, and that kind of thing. So when it comes to climate change, this is a real problem, because the most effective way to get climate action, I think, is through these democratic institutions through policy and they're just, Millennials are just not there. And so my work at the David Suzuki foundation is looking at how do you basically channel you know, the engagement that they are doing, which is a lot and it's diverse, and it's like, it's art projects, and media projects, and starting organizations and starting companies and protesting and organizing, like there's a lot of things going on. But it's not, there's not like a coherent strategy to actually affect political institutions. As far as I can see, like certain organizations have that agenda but like, the generation as a whole, is not doing that, like when you look at the population, so I'm making some suggestions of how that could be done, and how it's being done successfully at an organizational level. So what like The Sunrise Movement in the US is doing, for example, and how they're using different forms of participatory culture, to channel energy into policy change and engagement with elections and then how we could do that here and what that might look like and who's already doing it here and, and that type of thing and what the role of the David Suzuki Foundation could be in doing that, and how they need to change in order to address that generation and the, the sort of changes that are happening in the ways people engage in politics, in this case, climate politics in particular.
Am Johal 4:13
Why do you think it is that the millennial generation aren't interacting more formally with democratic institutions or political parties? Did something come up in your research that identified what some of those barriers were?
Tara Mahoney 4:25
I mean, it's a super complex problem. There's many reasons why. So there's like the social barriers, so barriers of time and associated with that economic barriers so you know, if you're working constantly like Millennials are, if you're working three jobs or in a precarious job or whatever, you're less likely to participate. There's barriers around race and gender and language and region. So there's those types of barriers, then there's cynicism is a big one. So millennials don't actually believe it's, it's this is like another paradox. It's like they believe in the role of government in an activist government, so government should be taking care of people in various ways. But then they don't actually believe that government is capable of doing that. So there's this, this kind of paradox. So as a sort of result of that they're cynical towards their participation having an effect on how decisions are made. That's been, that's been shown in Canada but that's been shown like in western countries around the world. Cynicism is only kind of growing and deepening, I would say, as the crisis of institutions itself deepens. So yeah, I would say that that reason is a big one. The other one is like, there's also all these other opportunities for more satisfying forms of political engagement, that are incorporating people's everyday life or incorporating their creativity or incorporating their jobs, or, you know, being a more welcoming community experience, like people are looking for forms of political engagement that are actualizing, or self actualizing and institutions don't really offer that.
Am Johal 6:04
So I guess from the perspective of civil society organizations, or the environmental movement, nonprofit organizations who are engaging in this type of work, what new strategies can they employ, or develop to be able to articulate some of these frustrations that the millennial generation has with formalized governmental institutions?
Tara Mahoney 6:26
Mhm. So there's a bunch, so one of the main ones is making engagement with political institutions and everyday activity. So kind of normalizing it in that way. And that can look different depending on what the issue is and what the organization is doing but the sort of form of engagement that is kind of like, the main kind of like pattern of engagement is "everyday change making" they call it. So millennials want to be living their political ideology. So then it's how do you create opportunities to combine that or bridge that with political institutions. So that's one way is like bringing it into the everyday. Another strategy is, like engaging popular culture and digital culture and so finding ways to communicate policy and the work of democratic institutions in new forms of communication. So whether that's like certain ways of producing media and videos and memes and other types of digital content, in ways that help people understand what's being decided, how to engage what their role is, it's surprising how little that's done. How little democratic institutions or political institutions do that. I think it's changing a little bit, but they don't really do it that well, when you compare it to other scrappy nonprofit organizations who do it well. So like, those are a couple that come up quite a bit in terms of like, the directions that people could be taking.
Am Johal 8:00
And I think, you know, with the kind of level of crisis and urgency that we have, historically movements that have been organizations that have been around a lot longer, the environmental movement particularly has been quite a white middle class or upper middle class movement and only in the last couple of decades, do you see kind of more diverse voices being a part of that, or Indigenous movements finally being centered in that, like those voices were always a part of movements, but in terms of actually being given the space to lead these movements and these larger coalitions happening, but these questions around diversity within the environmental movement, what came up during your research?
Tara Mahoney 8:42
Yeah, I mean, it's basically what you described came up. So the idea that, yeah, traditionally, the environmental movement has been led by middle class white people, the forefront of the movement is being led by people of color, particularly women of color, and Indigenous women and that's just, that's clear that's where the movements going. That's where the innovation is. That's where the new ideas are. That's what's right. That's what's just. But that requires legacy environmental organizations to change their behavior and structure based on that reality, which, that's really hard to do, because people don't, I think people are reluctant to give up power for many reasons. So I think it's tricky and complicated, but like one of the recommendations that I gave in the report was making space within the foundation for that leadership to come through. And not only that, but providing opportunities for leadership development among people of color, to come into the environmental movement and giving them decision making power within the organization. So like having young people of color on the board, for example, which there's none of right now. And so things like that power and decision making for those people that are at the forefront of the movement often on the front lines is what needs to happen for the environmental movement to really take the next step and evolve into the place where it needs to be.
Am Johal 10:09
Yeah. What's your political reading of the Greta Tunberg Effect? Um, clearly, there's been a lot of motivation and movement, she's become the public face of young people investing in this project and mass movements and protests, and what's your reading of how this movement is going or something new that's attempting to be formed?
Tara Mahoney 10:30
Yeah, I think she is, like, incredible in a lot of ways. I mean, this 16 year old who's galvanized this global movement, like, it's incredible what she's been able to do in such a short amount of time. I think it is true that her being like a white person, a white young person, adds to her ability to be at the forefront and be a leader, whether it's conscious or unconscious media bias that happens when, when these things get elevated in the way that they do. I think that that's a fair and true critique of what's happening. On the other hand, I'm also of the mind of just like, we need everything and everybody, and if she can galvanize, like a whole bunch of kids to be involved and convince their parents that, you know, this is an important issue that needs to, action needs to be taken now, like all the power to her. I think that these discussions and critiques are important and need to be part of the discussion and I think that she is aware of them and hears them. Based on her actions, I think is like trying to incorporate them in her own activism, which is great. So I think it's, yeah it's complicated in some ways, but it's forcing us to have the discussions that we need to have and evolve as a result. Yeah, that's sort of my read on it.
Am Johal 11:47
Yeah, she seems to be utilizing her spotlight and profile to highlight other voices as well. So I think there's an interesting kind of piece, but it's amazing how many people did come out to those protests recently in Vancouver, and around the world, different cities that were, that were happening. Before you were doing your doctoral work, you were involved in starting Gen Y Media and doing a lot of different types of experiments in public space around trying to figure out how to connect between and amongst generations. One of the projects you were involved with was Bring The Boomers and can you talk a little bit about that intergenerational work you were trying to do in terms of connecting up young people and older people around social and environmental change?
Tara Mahoney 12:31
Mhm. Yeah, so we started Bring Your Boomers kind of as an accident. We were doing our Gen Y Media projects focused on young people getting involved in civic and political issues and having events targeted at them and then my mom actually came to one of the events and said, "great turnout, like awesome event, but like you guys are talking about social change and the people who have all the money in the power, like aren't in the room, which is the boomers." And I was like, "hmm, yeah, that's true." So then someone said, like, "bring your boomers" or something [laughs] like, and while we were having that conversation, and then it's like, "that's a good title," and then it went from there. So then a few months later, we had organized our first intergenerational dialogue event with kind of Boomer leaders talking on stage with their counterparts and the other generation. So it'd be like two human rights lawyers, two artists, two activists, two filmmakers from different generations talking about a specific issue from their generational perspective and why it's different or why it's the same. And that proved to be quite a compelling thing to watch because not only was there a lot of commonality and kind of solidarity happening, but also a lot of difference and tension, like a learning tension that was happening between the generations that I think resonated with people. And yeah, like, for example, we had one person that was part of the dialogue, a Boomer, say you know, your generation, you have these incredible social media tools that you know how to use better than anyone else but yet you're using them to, you know, do whatever tweet, like your lunch or whatever. And the person was like, well, these are our tools, and you're the generation that screwed up the world. And so why should we have to fix it for you using our like fun media tools that we use for our daily life kind of thing. And so these conversations were, that's just one example of things that would come out and these tensions would come to the surface that I think exists, whether it's family relationships or other intergenerational relationships of the people that were in the audience. And it was, it was kind of cool because people would say, like, you know, I brought my mom or my aunt or whatever and we never ever talk about this stuff but this was an opportunity to bring them to this event. Because we would always have like, music and dancing and drinks and so it was kind of, we made it like a night out. So then the sort of political discussion wasn't, there was, you know, it was there, but it wasn't like, there was a bunch of other reasons to come and so they would have a fun night out with their parents, but then that would lead to other conversations that they had never had and, you know, sometimes changed the dynamic of their relationships. I know it did for me, and a lot of the relationships I had with older people. So that was great. And then we did, I think we produced like, I think around eight or nine events, and they got progressively larger, and progressively more difficult to pull off, as you had to fill larger venues and, and meet more different people's expectations and stuff and so we kind of took a break. We're still on that break, I guess. [laughs] But I do want to bring it back one day, because there was a clear need for it. There still is, of like an intentional, open public intergenerational dialogue where people can air their grievances, because I think there are many, and they've only gotten more intense with the like, Okay, Boomer meme that's happened and just that whole, it's like in the Zeitgeist even more now than it was then. So yeah, I'd like to bring it back someday.
Am Johal 16:07
You've been involved with other projects, like Creative Publics and I know that you've collaborated with other organizations that are doing similar work or working in maybe slightly different ways. Organizations like Apathy is Boring, and how's some of that coalition work gone in terms of trying to collaborate with other partners across the country and some of these other projects that you worked on and I remember you were doing some work related to participation in elections as well with young people?
Tara Mahoney 16:36
Mhm. Really good. I mean, I think it's been just really easy. I feel like with Apathy is Boring and like, I've collaborated with Open Media, and Lead Now and other organizations, a bunch of different ones. And it's just, I don't know, I just feel like we're, you're kind of on the same page when you start working. Especially, you know, when Gen Y Media was at its height, like maybe five years ago, four years ago, everybody had a lot of energy towards the same goal. And this was like, if you can remember, this was back before social media became kind of evil, like before the Cambridge Analytica before the Edward Snowden like, it was still this, like very exciting,
Am Johal 17:15
Utopian space.
Tara Mahoney 17:16
It was very utopian, yeah and so a lot of those partnerships formed at that point where everybody was just so excited to work together and excited about the possibilities. Now, like I am continuing to work with Apathy is Boring, the partnership itself is great. I'd say it's heavier, now, the work is more, the issues are more serious, the threat to people's lives and safety is more present, the interconnectedness of the issues is more clear, the injustice is just like so visible now. So that hasn't really changed the dynamic of the partnership, but it changes the way the work feels in a lot of ways. With the Creative Publics stuff that we did around the election. So Creative Publics was like, an experimental project that we did as part of a, well part of my PhD research, but part of a larger research project called Art for Social Change and we wanted to test this idea of, what is a different way to engage with elections, that doesn't result in like having a political, like traditional political discussion? You know, someone who doesn't really want to engage in that, how would they engage in an election? We set up interventions in Vancouver, like on the street in public space, and we worked with the Tin Can Studio, which is a mobile art studio and we asked like people walking down the street, just strangers to stop, take 10 minutes and make a collage about what they were voting for. It's kind of a weird ask, but collage was chosen, because you can be creative in a collage without having any artistic skills. It's just like cutting and gluing. And so we had icons of different public policy areas. So we'd have like an icon of like a hospital and icon of like a jail and like a pot leaf and like a road, and, and so people could put together these collages. And then the idea was like, as they were making the art, they were thinking about the issues and my research question was like, does that change the way that they then think about the election and participating in it? And also, like, does it spark any kind of dialogue with a stranger? I mean, a project of this scale, it's impossible to know, like, you know, if these people ended up voting or being more politically engaged, but what I did observe was the way that art and creativity gets people to make connections they wouldn't have otherwise made. So they make this collage and then they start to associate their own personal beliefs with what's happening in the election or what's going to happen. Also, the collage works is this vehicle for opening up a conversation that's quite intimate very quickly. So like, if you ask someone, "Tell me about your collage." They'll say, "Oh, well I put a hospital on there because you know, my mom's suffering from cancer and, you know, public health care has always been really important to me. So I'm voting based on that." And then there's a, you know, a picture of a piece of food or banana and it would be like, "You know, I grew up with not a lot of money and food was always like a big thing for us." And so people would say these things to me after like, knowing me for maybe two, three minutes, like I was just circling around the collage tables. So it was really amazing that this tool allowed people to open up right away to a stranger, and turned the election into this form of community engagement that was actually quite like heartwarming and satisfying, when normally, that's not how I feel about engagement in elections, like even going to a debate or an all candidates meeting like, you don't really leave those feeling that great or that connected to anyone. Whereas this I did, and I think it had a lot to do with the art making itself and what that helps people do.
Am Johal 20:59
Now you're teaching with City Studio right now, and you've done some more recent teaching in some labs as well. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what you're doing on that front?
Tara Mahoney 21:11
Mhm. I'm teaching in the Civic Innovation Lab. It's hosted by Radius, but it's a collaboration between Radius and City Studio. And basically, we work with the City of Vancouver. So it's a cohort of students, I think we have like 17 students in third and fourth year, 丁香园AV students. And we're working with the City of Vancouver on their resilience strategy. So City of Vancouver is very concerned with how the city is going to deal with extreme events. So earthquakes, of course, is the big one but then also like climate change events, flooding, water, sanitation issues, food security, all these things. So the city is like, very interested in that and has a strategy around it. And one of the main kind of pillars of their strategy is community engagement with the idea that like, if you have strong community relationships, the city can be more resilient in a disaster. And so with that program, the students are coming up with projects around that idea. And so they can be startups like they can be social enterprises around that idea, they can be kind of like experimental, social innovation type things that maybe eventually could live within an organization. They can be, you know, ideas for nonprofits. So it's really an opportunity for people in university to understand like how civic problems and issues are thought about in an institutional setting and also to kind of allow for opportunities to learn in a way that's kind of hands on and you know, out there in the world they have to come up with a sustainable project idea that's not just like a one off thing that they're going to do that's like a thing that could be sustainable over time. And what does that look like? And they have a very short amount of time they have, you know, a semester to come up with what this would be. It's just inspiring to not only teach students and see them really come alive in a program like this but also it always just reminds me of like all the people in the city and in cities everywhere that are just working so hard on these issues. You know and to introduce students to that and you know, even city bureaucrats are inspiring to me like they've committed their life to trying to make the city work better. And you know, no one's perfect but to, to be able to expose students to that is really neat and we're actually bringing them to 312 Main next week I think or the week after for a tour and for so they can really see what we're talking about when we say you could start these types of projects to really show them and and then we're going to learn about the Downtown Eastside Resiliency Plan that was developed. I think it was developed here with residents and yeah.
Am Johal 23:52
You do all of this stuff and you have a baby who you just took to the doctor.
Tara Mahoney 23:57
Yeah.
Am Johal 23:57
How do you do this all?
Tara Mahoney 23:59
I don't know, I just, it just happens. Like I I mean I have like incredible support system, my my partner and family are like very supportive and always have been you know, and always kind of tell me that I can do it and so I do it but I don't think that I'm, I don't know, I don't think I'm doing any more than other people. I'm just doing it in a different way like it just I don't know and I also do a lot of like, pieces of things at once so like you know, it seems like I'm doing a lot but like I'm doing like five things that add up to like one full time job and people are like oh my god you're doing a lot I'm like yeah, but I'm doing like what an average person would do if they had a full time job but I just like don't have that I have like all these all these part time gigs.
Am Johal 24:45
So you're gonna be doing some work right now with the Community Engaged Research Initiative here at 丁香园AV. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you're doing here.
Tara Mahoney 24:53
Yeah, so I'm the Research and Engagement Coordinator at CERI and I've been working with colleagues, Joanna and you and Stuart, on basically I kind of see my role as like, helping to matchmake researchers and students with community organizations, and then also helping both parties, sort of tweak their projects so that they meet the standard that we're trying to set around community engaged research and that's been really cool so far. Like, it's only been a couple of weeks, but just the projects that are coming through are really awesome and, and just working with people to help them understand what community engaged research is, and how to do it in a way that's, you know, equitable and also has impact. So that work's been really cool. I just get to meet new people and, and understand their work and work with them. So yeah, I'm really liking it and I'm really liking being in 312.
Am Johal 25:54
Cool. Thank you so much for joining us, Tara. The pride and joy of Calgary, BC, Calgary, Alberta. I mean, that's what I meant. [laughs]
Tara Mahoney 26:01
Calgary, BC.
[both laugh]
Am Johal 26:01
Yeah. Thank you.
Tara Mahoney 26:04
Yeah, you're welcome.
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Paige Smith 26:08
Thanks again to Tara Mahoney for joining us on Below the Radar. In our next episode, we're joined by Michael Byers, a Professor of Political Science at UBC, and co director of the outer space initiative.
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Michael Byers 26:20
What's happening though, in space is the entry is very capable commercial actors. Space is now a half trillion dollar a year industry and it's projected to grow faster than any other industrial sector over the course of the next decade. And it's the commercial actors coming in and realizing the incredible amount of applications right, every one of us is walking around with space in our pocket because space is in our cell phone, right? And that's just one manifestation of the literally hundreds of uses of space that every single one of us in a developed country makes every day.
Outro 26:53
You can listen to and download episodes of Below the Radar wherever you catch your podcasts, and be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you don't miss any episodes. You can follow us on Facebook and Twitter at Below the Radar to stay up to date with upcoming episodes and news. As always, thank you to the team that puts this podcast together, including myself, Paige Smith, Rachel Wong, Fiorella Pinillos and Kathy Feng. David Steele is the composer of our theme music and thank you for listening
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