Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 183: The Creative Instigator鈥檚 Handbook 鈥� with Leanne Prain
Speakers: Debbie C, Melissa Roach, Leanne Prain
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Debbie C 0:04
Hello listeners. I'm Debbie C. with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. On this episode of Below the Radar, our host Melissa Roach has a conversation with Leanne Prain, writer of the book, The Creative Instigator's Handbook, a DIY Guide to Making Social Change Through Art. Together, they have an engaging conversation about the connection between arts and crafts and social activism, the importance of peer mentorship, and the many unique projects that Leanne has been a part of. We hope you enjoy the episode.
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Melissa Roach 0:50
Welcome to Leanne Prain. I'm so happy that you can join us on Below the Radar.
Leanne Prain 0:55
Thanks for having me.
Melissa Roach 0:57
I'm very excited today, to talk about your recently released book, which is the Creative Instigator's Handbook, a DIY Guide to Making Social Change Through Art. Welcome, Leanne. The first question I wanted to ask you was about: what was your spark of inspiration for creating this book, and in particular, what made you want to write a DIY guide?
Leanne Prain 1:21
So the Creative Instigator's Handbook was actually inspired right in my first three books, which were somewhat craft DIY books. And through the course of writing those books, I ended up doing a whole bunch of public lectures and community art projects, and I was constantly meeting people who would kind of come up and shyly show me something out of their bag and be like, "You know, I've made this thing, I've made it this political statement, but I can't show it to anyone or my husband thinks it's dumb." And so part of the thinking about the book was taking all the skills I'd learned working at Woodward's, because I worked there for several years, working in community arts councils that I did as a teenager, I did a lot of community art projects in North Vancouver, and on Vancouver Island, where I grew up. And leading people through sort of the basic stages, I know that it takes to execute an art project, or a community art project to be more precise, so. Some of that's thinking about, you know, what do I want to accomplish in the world? What skills do I have? You know, how do I meet people to work with? Because often people feel very alone. How do I build confidence in my skills to get them out there? How do I find those resources that might seem you know, expensive or hard to find? And then, you know, what research might they need to do? How do I promote it and get people actually to participate? And then, you know, how do I look at the project after the fact and figure out what did I learn from it? Or how do I archive it and share it, you know, in the future, or, you know, build something that people can look back on and maybe build their own or project from?
Melissa Roach 2:46
Yeah, that's what I really appreciated about it, going through, is that it truly is a practical guide, from end to end for your project. And I'm actually going to go and reread it, and actually answer all of the questions and prompts that you put in there for my next project, because it's so many things that evoke reflections that just make your work better.
Leanne Prain 3:10
That was the hope. I mean, the hope was that, you know, you don't need to read the book from beginning to end, you can kind of launch yourself into any way, and I think what I really just tried to capture is like, what is that, you know, kind of conversation I have with friends I collaborate with when we get in a room, and we have a coffee, and we chat? And part of it was also thinking like, you know, I've worked with some pretty incredible internationally renowned artists, I've interviewed some for the book, and for my other books. And sometimes you can see that work, and it feels so far from maybe, you know, small things for making into your everyday life. And he'll be like, "Oh, I didn't get to art school, I didn't, you know, get a chance to like, go and study, you know, how to make conceptual art, but I want to make something." And so, it's really important for me, in my books to be like, "What, you kow, knowledge can I glean from my various bits of experience and what I can learn from other people?" And how can you make it really practical? So, I mean, we always learn by doing, but you kind of have to take that first step. And so you know, that's what I was hoping it was: a book of micro-steps to get people started.
Melissa Roach 4:07
Yeah, that's wonderful. You've done so many different things in the arts, like you're saying, you were on the Community Arts Council, you've been an art communicator, but in the book you draw on your experience as a yarn bomber. And I was wondering what made you take that leap and really beame interested in the practice of Craftivism, and art that has a socially engaged aspect to it?
Leanne Prain 4:29
Um, yeah, I mean, where did it really start for me? I mean, I've always made things by hand. Like, I grew up in a very crafty household. And, you know, I grew up in a small town, pre-Internet era, where really, if you wanted cool clothes, you had to make them yourself, because we had literally one store in town and the Sandwich, it was, you know, not around anymore, but I think you know, a very Canadian small town kind of thing. I also grew up, like, one of my dad's friends is a fairly well-known artist named Godfrey Stephens, and he's a carver that's quite well known on the west coast, and one of his most well-known works is the , which was sort of like a key art piece that was used during the Clayoquot forest protests in the 80s. And so I actually grew up with like, Godfrey's doodles on the walls of my parents' house. And so, I think, you know, art and protest have always been inherently linked. Like, I have this childhood memory of somebody gifting me a little wooden button, it was a handmade button, for Free Nicaragua. And I remember I had that, like, in my childhood things. So, you know, I think craft and art and protest have always been together, and then, you know, I was very involved in the arts when I was in high school, and I had a great art teacher that, you know, made us do community projects, and then I started working community art programming for seven years, every summer when I was a university student, I did that. And then I worked at the for a couple of years. And I was at UBC, I was an undergrad in the Art History program in the 90s, and it was when the APEC 97 were going on. And at the time, I was a work study student in the gallery, and Scott Watson, who was the curator said, "We need to go get some of the protest posters to include in the University Art Archive." So that was my reality as like, a student who was working. But then every summer, I was going home and like, making things with people in my local community, right? So lantern festivals, and like, you know, artists painting cars with kids, and like, very practical, hands-on, anyone from the community can make things. And then at the same time, I was in this really incredible Art History program at UBC that was very well-respected at the time, you know, I go in there thinking, "I'm going to be an art curator." And at the time, the big controversy was that, you know, there had been an art essay written by someone who'd been an Art History student who was an Indigenous woman, who had kind of said, "I'm reading about all this canonized, you know, European art history, and it doesn't make sense in my world." And the way that essay was introduced to us was, it was a really controversial thing. And, you know, maybe because I'm from Vancouver Island, I was like, "Really? This is controversial?" And it didn't make sense with, like, you know, the work I was doing in my summers, and the things I was seeing at the art gallery, and they were all like, so completely divorced for me? And I think even, you know, with the opportunity to write a book on something like yarn bombing, and seeing like, yarn bombers do things that are not just pretty crafty stuff, but to kind of make a statement, or people being like, "Yarn can be art!" For me, it's always been, like, what is the difference between all these things? These are, everybody is making something in the spirit of communicating to each other. So, why are we putting up boundaries are saying this is higher, this is lower, this belongs in a gallery? This is conceptual art that will involve people, this is a community project. So, I think that's kind of been my own personal, like, mission of troublemaking? It's like, you know, maybe we can bring your money into an art gallery, as many people have since, right? Since it's been acceptable, or maybe, you know, someone without art training can actually create incredibly impactful work, which we also know can happen, right? Like, I think a lot about 's graffiti in the Downtown Eastside, and how important that has been as a communication method, right? And so, yeah, I mean, my head's kind of swimming with all those thoughts. Those are things I'm often thinking of, as I'm going about either creating work or, you know, thinking about how I purchase my books and stories.
Melissa Roach 8:27
Yeah, that kind of, this juncture that you're talking about, between all those arts spaces, and different types of making and perhaps, unnecessary classifications about what kind of art is art? You said, it's one of your endeavours to unpack that, but where do you think that all stems from? I mean, you mentioned kind of the colonial canon as one.
Leanne Prain 8:50
Yeah, I mean, I think from the start, that's a lot of how people get taught that still, they think, you know, like... But I also think, you know, there's maybe something inherent, just in society of how we treat art, like, artists are kind of weird people, generally, right? And, you know, society, if you don't run with artists, you know.
Melissa Roach 9:08
If you鈥檙e going to call someone weird, you call them arty.
Leanne Prain 9:11
Or you鈥檙e crafty, right, so, you know, like, even my current role, you know, some of my co-workers have found out I've written a crafty book, and they were like, "Oh, well, sometimes my wife is crafty," right? So it's like, and you know, even when I was doing a lot of press for yarn bombing, you'd meet people were like, newscasters. So they're like, "Yeah, I've knit since I was a child," you know, 40-50 year old man, and it's like, "I've never told anybody." It's like, "Oh, my God," you know what I mean? So, you know, I think there's just a certain cultural attitude about it. I think we're starting to break down hopefully some of our attitude towards that, like there's an artist, , who said, like, during the 80s craft was very uncool and knowing how to make things was very uncool. And maybe because I was raised by parents who are very, like, grassroots like, you know, children of like the 60s era, like, what's uncool about knowing how to build your own house, sew your own clothes and then, you know, embroider a statement that you could bring out into the community? And engage people in, you know, change somebody's mind through politics? I don't know.
Melissa Roach 10:11
I mean, also, the classist lens of you couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for you.
Leanne Prain 10:16
Yeah, there's that too.
Melissa Roach 10:17
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about... Yeah, so speaking to, you know, the man who's been knitting his whole life and doesn't speak about it, or maybe doesn't call himself a maker or an artist, what are your reflections about, especially having written this DIY guide for people who are breaking into the arts, or maybe looking to take their art further: what are your thoughts on hesitancies? Of getting into it, or about self-identifying as, "Oh, I am an artist," or "Yes, I am a maker, I am a crafter, I have a craft."
Leanne Prain 10:51
Yeah. I mean, I think for a lot of that, it's learning to listen to your inner self, versus others. I mean, even as someone, like, I have worked in like, a commercial design space. And that can be a lovely, wonderful community, but it can also be a very competitive space, where people are very quick to tell you whether you're a good designer, or a bad designer, or you've gone to the right school, or... Everybody has an opinion, generally, right? And I think the same thing goes for art and creativity, like, there's always somebody who will be a critic. And at a certain point, you have to, you know, really figure out what makes you happy, and what skills you have that you want to use in the world, whether that's, you know, practicing for yourself privately, or, you know, starting to introduce your work to a small circle of friends, so you can start to build confidence. You know, I spent a lot of time in that book thinking about collaboration, and like, how do you find those people that you work with well? And I think that's part of how, you know, art gets seen, it's when we show it to other people. Maybe it doesn't, you know, what the audience, but even when you share it with one other person, it almost becomes art, right, versus just something you're doing, if that makes sense, so.
Yeah, I'm thinking, going back to your saying that, taking that extra step of, like, infusing your politics and your activism into your art, or, you know, vice-versa. I'm thinking back to the lending library of protest banners. That was one of the case studies...
Yeah.
Melissa Roach 12:19
In the book, because you were talking about your archiving posters, and how that library is meant to be, like, they're living things that get used all the time. Are there other case studies? I know, I didn't ask you to prepare--like, if there are things that still stick in your mind and conversations you had in the book and projects that you... maybe that come to mind more still?
Leanne Prain 12:40
Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's 23 case studies in the book. And, you know, it became apparent to me as I was writing it, like, I wanted to have different artists' work and, you know, inspire people reading the book, but also sort of get an idea of like, you know, depending on where you come from, like, if you're somebody who's been practicing art for 10 years, and suddenly you're like, you might want to do something a little bit political, that hopefully there was somebody who, you know, you could see you're like, "Oh, they're inspiring," right? Or, you know, if you've never tried anything before, something, you know, small and accessible. The protest lending libraries and amazing project by an artist named , you know, she's very interested in democracy. So, she is a child of Korean immigrants in the US, grew up in a very tight-knit community of people, her mother is a seamstress, and her parents owned a tailor shop, and they still do. So, she learned how to sew there. And one of the things that she started to learn was that, you know, there are all these people in the US who want to be part of the democratic process, but they don't have the citizenship, or the papers to do so. So one of our projects, actually, is to create the voting experience for people are unable to vote. So she makes these "official," unofficial voting booths, where you can go in, you can sign a ballot, you can get a wristband, she also created it as an online experience, during COVID, so people can feel like they have their say. And then another piece that she started was getting community circles and teaching people how to sew, because again, these are skills that you know, not everybody in society has, and probably even less people today than maybe 40 years ago. So how do you construct a really easy banner, you know, you get a group of people working together, and, you know, the thing about sewing circles, is when people work together, they talk, right? You have this instant connection that you might not have for any other reason. But one of the things she really said, two things she said, stuck with me. One, when she was creating a lot of the banners, she was at a point in her life where she was pregnant, and she didn't feel like she could go out into public and protest. And I don't believe she had a citizenship where she could go and protest, but she could create a banner somebody else could check out, and take her voice into the public. And that was the reality for many of the people creating the banners, is they weren't able to physically go in protests, but they can create this piece, for somebody else can take it out. The other thing that came up is, you know, differing opinions and some different politics, and there were people who showed up to make banners that had completely different politics than her. But she said, you know, what's important in this project is democracy, and talking to each other, and getting the word out. So for her, it was really the act of making the banner and making it available. And that's something for her, she doesn't want that project archived. She, you know, even though there's voices every time she goes to a library or an institution, the idea is that becomes something that can be continually checked out, which I thought was amazing. You know, there's an artist, you know, I just contacted him because I was in New York City about five, six years ago, and literally pulled an inspirational quote off a poster on the street, and thought, "Oh, that's cute," and kept it on my fridge for years. But it's a project called , and it's Terrence Kelleman. And Terrence just decided he wanted to add something to New York City streetscapes, and he takes quotes of famous people that inspire him, and he puts them up on street poles. Really simple, anyone can execute that, but it's something you know, he's sort of been doing for, I think, five or six years. And, you know, he was saying that, you know, he met a woman one day on the street, you know, because he was doing it rather anonymously. And I guess she was at a really low point in her life where she was, you know, considering... not continuing. And she found the right quote at the right time. And he said, that was enough for him to keep going, and keep doing this project. And that project has also been something that's really supported him and his whole mental health when his was low. So, you know, really simple project, but thought that was a really interesting way of, you know, somebody engaging the public who might choose not to, normally, and still being able to impact people as well.
Melissa Roach 16:40
That was another memorable one for me, Be Mighty. And I really liked the ephemeral nature of it. Because Terrence didn't necessarily know how long they would stay posted. Who would take them, take those quotes away? What impact they would have? It was really like a, I think it shows like a lot of trust and faith in putting your art and your mind your ideas out into the world.
Leanne Prain 17:05
Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, he has this favorite quote, which is a Theodore Roosevelt quote, which is, "Do what you can with what you have when you can"? I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, I just think that's a lovely sentiment. And I think that says a lot for, you know, people who do community projects, as well. And, you know, I think that was something else that kind of inspired me, like, I was thinking about, you know, I studied Art History, I worked in Community Arts Councils, but I didn't really honestly know a lot about art activations until I worked at Woodward's, when I was in, like my mid-30s. Like, it wasn't part of my art education. And, you know, I think the School for Contemporary Arts teaches like really fascinating stuff to their students. But that's not necessarily content that's accessible to the general public, right? And so, a lot of what I was internally exploring when I was writing the book was like, what is the difference between an art activation really, you know, done with someone who's really practiced in fine arts, versus a community art project that anyone can start? And maybe, like, what skills can I pull from one practice to the other, too?
Melissa Roach 18:06
And the "do what you can with what you have," that sentiment makes me think of some of the projects, particularly I'm thinking about the trolls.
Leanne Prain 18:14
Oh, yes, yeah. The trolls!
Melissa Roach 18:16
The projects that are made entirely out of recycled materials, because another barrier that you write about is that people often say, "Well, I don't have the resources to start, I don't, I don't have supplies, I don't have space to do what I want to do." And it's really just taking stock of what you have and doing what you can.
Leanne Prain 18:32
Exactly. So you're referring to the project of , who's an artist from Copenhagen, and he travels all over the world right now. Like, he actually has a team of people who help him now. But he started making birdhouses. So, he would help community folks figure out how to make a simple birdhouse, and they would make hundreds of birdhouses for a single tree. So, he does a lot of projects with multiples, but they're all made out of waste materials. But now he's got into building these incredible, like, 20-foot trolls. Like they're, they take up, they're troll-size, they take over the whole landscape. But they're always made with materials sourced from the immediate area. And he'll often work with organizations that're like, "Oh, we should bring all this wood in for this festival". And he's like, "No, we're gonna go source it in a day and then build it." And he builds these really fantastical creatures. But the other thing I really liked about him is he started and uh, you know, you don't think about somebody Danish being a rap artist, but he started as a rap artist when he was younger, and he makes up stories about these creatures that they create, but it all has like an ecological message. And, you know, thought he was a really fascinating person in terms of using different artistic skills and blending them together, to sort of create projects, and then bring other people into that work. And he's now just written a children's book about the trolls to empower kids about the environment, too.
Melissa Roach 19:50
That's so fun.
Leanne Prain 19:51
Yeah.
Melissa Roach 19:51
Yeah, they look, like, straight out of a fairy tale.
Leanne Prain 19:53
They do. They're really magical.
Melissa Roach 19:54
That鈥檚 good. And I was thinking just to give people like, another flavor, because there's such a breadth of different types of work. The other one I can see you write that it brings delight every time you think of it. But of course, I'm making you do the work of coming up with all the artists names in the project.
Leanne Prain 20:11
Oh, that's okay!
Melissa Roach 20:13
The wonderful pedicabs outfitted with beautiful sculptures, the animals...
Leanne Prain 20:19
Oh, yes. So, that was actually a dream project, to be able to contact the people who made that. So, The Spirit of the Animals is in the Wheels.
Melissa Roach 20:29
In the wheels!
Leanne Prain 20:30
And so, , who's a very well-known writer, he's quite famous for not only writing some award-winning novels, and publishing McSweeney's magazines, but also running a whole chain of children's tutoring societies across the US. And they all have different themes, like, the most well-known one is in San Francisco, and it has a pirate theme. So the kids have tutoring the back, but you can go to this pirate store and buy glass eyeballs, and all sorts of things, and making literary tutoring really fun, and I've been to that store a few times. And he partnered with a bike maker in Detroit, and one of their tutoring programs in Detroit, they were having a hard time getting the kids to get there after school, and they wanted to figure out a sustainable mode of transportation. So, Juan Martinez is the bike maker. And he'd been known for making, like, crazy art bikes. And so Dave Eggers, like literally came to one with the sketch and said, "Can you make this bison bike?" And they're made out of aluminum, and they are beautiful. So there's a bear, a bison, pangolin. And like, it looks like in the photos, five to six children can sit on them, and they're the most magical looking things. And you know, they can weave them through the streets of Detroit, and they've kind of become this pride symbol. But it also takes the kids to tutoring, like, what a magical way to go, you know, from after school to more school, right?
Melissa Roach 21:48
Yeah, I loved that one. Yeah, you're mentioning working at at 丁香园AV, being in the Woodbridge complex, and... Because that's how we met each other.
Leanne Prain 21:57
That's right!
Melissa Roach 21:57
Leanne actually trained me and did a lot of mentoring in arts communication for me, personally. And I was going through this book and reading all the thoughtful prompts and feeling like this book is like a mentor sitting on your shelf. It's really beautiful, and I wanted to ask you about what role mentorship has played in your creative life?
Leanne Prain 22:23
Yeah, I mean, I think... I've had a bunch of mentors. Like, I don't think there's anyone where I would point to a certain person and say, like, "They are my mentor," you know what I mean? But I think I've been really fortunate to have a whole bunch of people in my life who have always encouraged me, very, you know, creatively. One being my parents, and my dad was a builder. He built like, very unconventional wooden boats when I was a kid. So I think I've always seen what's possible, if you focus on something and you make something, you know? I worked for an incredible woman who ran the North Vancouver Community Arts Council for many years, she recently retired. Her name was Linda Feil, and I actually have a small nod to her in the book. One of the things she would say she had all these, you know, catchphrases, she threw out, but I remember being like 21, living in Vancouver on my own really long-term, beyond just student dormitories. And she would, you know, tell us to go do something and say, "Fill your boots!" and like, leave the room. Her favorite one was "D&D: Delegate & Disappear!" But you know, it's always giving people a license to like, go ahead and create something, start an art show, contact an artist, make something. So in some ways, like she was the most incredible person to work for, because she literally would say, "Here are the tools. I'm gonna leave you, go ahead, come find me when you need me," you know? Yeah, I mean, so many people, I have to say, that I have a very close circle of friends who are all involved in the arts in various ways. Many of them come to my house, every couple of weeks, we have sort of a little, we call it the Clarence because I live in a building called the Clarence. And we kind of talk, and brainstorm where we are with different projects that we're working on. One of my dearest friends, her name's Laura Farina. She's a poet, she actually works for 丁香园AV, now. She runs the Writers Studio. She and I met by chance, I met a friend of hers on the bus who said, "I have a friend who's a poet, who's moving to Vancouver, just looking for a writers group, you two should meet." And I was like, "Ah, I'm just gonna meet this random stranger from Toronto or Ottawa." But she's been one of my, you know, greatest friends and collaborators, and person I can call to bounce ideas off of, and we started the literary art project that we call The Imprint where we do public events every once in a while, so.
Melissa Roach 24:31
I want to know more about that.
Leanne Prain 24:33
Yeah!
Melissa Roach 24:34
We can do that later, too.
Leanne Prain 24:35
Yeah, I mean, we do things like, we've served Literary Lemonade at 101 Days, so we've gone down to Kits Beach, literally dragged her dining room table out and served strangers lemonade, asked them about their day, composed some writing on the side of a paper cup about their day. You know, had these amazing strangers' stories, fill it with lemonade, wished them goodbye, had a great day. We did a project at when it was around called Dream Tent, where we asked people about their dreams, so we wrote it on a tablecloth. And the hope is one day that cloth will become a tent. We did a project, The Word On The Street a few years ago, where we asked people to write a fortune for somebody else. And then we put it in a fortune machine, a glass head in a box, and they would pull out a fortune that another citizen of Vancouver had written for them. We've done a paper dinner party for International Women's Day, and asked people to come to the paper dinner party and write stories of women on paper plates and napkins. So, to literally invite other women to the table, kind of a take off . So yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the thing with mentorship is, there's that whole idea of a mentor being someone you go to and talk to, but I think you can cultivate that in a bunch of people around you. And sometimes, it's just looking for who encourages you and who inspires you. So, I've got a little bit in the book about that, too. You know, look for where you get positive reinforcement, encouragement, for those people that ask you really challenging questions, because those are the people that are probably steering you in the right direction.
Melissa Roach 25:57
Yeah, definitely. And I've found that peer mentorship can lead to some of the most fruitful, too, and like you said, bringing your kind of circle of people around you. And you write about it in the book, about just the wonderful magic of having kind of that community of practice that keeps you going, and like you said, pushes you when you need it.
Leanne Prain 26:17
Exactly. And also people who do completely different things, like one of my dearest friends, who's also actually a mentor, we're 20 years apart. And we became friends, I think, when I was 18. So we're like, we literally, you know, turn double decades together when we have birthdays. But you know, she's a writer, but she's really a theatre artist, and a dancer, and a jewelry maker, which I am not. But she's, again, someone I can bounce ideas off of, and talk to, so. You know, that's one of the great things about life, is finding people who are creative, maybe who are creative in a very different way than you are.
Melissa Roach 26:51
Yeah, that's beautiful. I think we're coming to my last question. You did not intend to write this book during the pandemic.
Leanne Prain 26:58
No.
Melissa Roach 27:01
But that is what ended up having to happen. How was that experience for you? And what do you think would be different about the book if it was written at a different time?
Leanne Prain 27:11
Yeah, I mean, I think that question, it's... The thing I have learned about writing books is, every time, because this is my fourth book, every time I write a book, I go into the project thinking, "The book baby is going to be this, I have an idea. This is the pitch I put together for my publisher." And then at the end, you get a very different baby. And you're like, "This is not the baby, I thought it was, but I think I like this baby!" I mean, yeah, I was working a very busy job that got busier as a result of the pandemic, in communications. And even though my focus is not crisis communications, I ended up doing that during the pandemic, so. You know, my writing time was leaner than I would have liked it to be. You know, typically not in a pandemic, I would be able to, you know, meet local artists, go to them have in-person conversations. So, I mean, it took an extra six months to write the book as well, because, you know, I had this perfect laundry list of every artist I wanted to contact, but through the course of the pandemic, like, everybody was in crisis.
Melissa Roach 28:13
Yeah.
Leanne Prain 28:14
And so, you know, people might not be as emotionally or mentally available as they normally are, they might have big stuff happening, you know, I people agree to be in it who drifted, you know, and you can't fault anybody for that. That's just the state of everybody's reality. But on the other hand, like, it also gave me an opportunity to really reach out and have, you know, I think, deeper conversations with people, to get artists, you know, some of the ones with, you know, long-term practices, thinking about where they were in that moment in time where they were thinking about their art practice in a very particular way, it got, you know, altered by the pandemic, and it's like, "I'm used to working face to face with people. How can I do this now?" Right? Yeah. And there was also a lot of things. I mean, every book, there's so many people I'd want to include, like, I do consider this, like, a tasting menu of people out there. It's, again, not the end all be all of you know, who should be in the book, you know, I always have you know, 20 other people I wish I could have included as well, right?
Melissa Roach 29:09
Yeah. You did write about how, in this time of crisis, not just for people who make art, but art was a balm in general, for people to turn to.
Leanne Prain 29:19
Exactly. One, I think people became more comfortable with showing off their weirdness if that makes sense, right? Like, I mean, I wasn't really aware of Tiktok till the pandemic happened, right? And then that sort of became the happy social media while everything else seemed to be falling apart, but you know, people willing to kind of show their weird selves. I saw Facebook groups where, there was one called Get Down With The Lockdown. I'd really hoped to include the starters of that in the book, but they were too busy with their group that was thriving, I think.
Melissa Roach 29:48
Too busy getting down.
Leanne Prain 29:49
Too busy getting down! But like, it was really amazing to see those organic communities form. I guess that's the other thing that I was gonna mention is, like, I had a writers group that would come to my house every two weeks, and suddenly, like, we're meeting on Zoom. And, and we continued to meet for quite a long time, but then, you know, people have young kids, people have other things going on. But I also started an online writer's group with somebody I've never met in person. We still haven't met. We've been meeting for like two and a half years, and we were going to something through meetup.com, and then I was like, we both work day jobs, we're both trying to find the right time, do you want to meet on Tuesday nights? And then he and I ended up co-hosting this Tuesday night writers' group that's still going. We have random strangers come in from like Seattle, California, people in Vancouver. Aside from one person I know, personally from working at 丁香园AV, like, literally, I've never met any of them in life, in real life. But I've seen them every two weeks for like two years.
Melissa Roach 30:44
That's wild.
Leanne Prain 30:46
Right?
Melissa Roach 30:46
That's really neat.
Leanne Prain 30:47
Yeah.
Melissa Roach 30:48
That's one thing that we found at 丁香园AV's Vancity Office of Community Engagement with really, you know, being more and more prolific with Below the Radar, is that we previously were doing a lot of engagement in-person, that was no longer possible. And one thing that came out of it is that we were beginning to speak to people in faraway places that otherwise we would have, you know, had to come up with money to fly them out for an event. And all of a sudden, we... I mean, the access was always there digitally, is the funny thing, but it just became so important and necessary.
Leanne Prain 31:27
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of this is also about connection, and like, maybe that's done in person, maybe that's done online, you know, and even in like writing Yarn Bombing, like we republished that book, 10 years later, and like going back to republish that book, I'm like, "Oh, wow, we've got Myspace in this book, we've got all these..." Because at that time, I was so excited about how something that was a traditionally domestic medium, that would normally be done in living rooms, suddenly had all this proliferation online, and like, at that point in time, there was , which was bigger than Facebook, like it was this intense online community of knitters, right? And that was so exciting, but now it's almost normalized, right? Like, we can actually share all these things all the time, anytime. And I think that actually creates some amazing opportunities, right? Even though there's so many challenging things happening in the world, like, we're able to connect with each other in so many different ways.
Melissa Roach 32:19
Yarn Bombing is a great book. I also love that it is full of practical patterns, and how to really quickly wrap a tree in a sweater to dash off into the night.
Leanne Prain 32:30
Be very sneaky, when people used to feel like they had to wear costumes to do it. Yeah.
Melissa Roach 32:36
I actually walked past a tree sweater on my way to the optometrist yesterday.
Leanne Prain 32:42
Amazing! There's some pretty active yarn bombers in Mount Pleasant, and I live very close to there. And I'm always getting emails like, "Is this you?" And I'm like, no, there are other people who do this.
Melissa Roach 32:50
They're out there!
Leanne Prain 32:51
They're out there.
Melissa Roach 32:54
I guess my last question is, how do people find the book? Maybe at their local independent bookstore?
Leanne Prain 33:02
Yes, so it's published by Arsenal Pulp Press, a Vancouver publisher with global distribution, so, it's available in the US, Canada, the UK, we encourage you to get it from either Arsenal Pulps directly, or you can get it from your independent bookstore, or those other places that take a bigger cut, everybody who makes the book.
Melissa Roach 33:25
Thank you so much, Leanne.
Leanne Prain 33:27
Thanks for having me.
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Debbie C 33:32
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by 丁香园AV's Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our conversation with Leanne Prain. Head to the show notes. To learn more about the resources mentioned in the show. We release episodes every Tuesday, so make sure to subscribe to Below the Radar on your podcasting app of choice to make sure you never miss an episode. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you next time on Below the Radar.
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